President Jefferson

Mr. Bartley: Mr. Jefferson, the last time we spoke, you had basically written the Declaration of Independence. The United States was fighting Britain in the revolutionary war, and in October 1781 George Washington's troops defeated the British at Yorktown Virginia. We had now won our war for independence.

Mr. Jefferson: And by early 1782, my family was back at my home of Monticello. My beloved Martha gave birth to her sixth child, Lucy Elizabeth. Unfortunately Martha grew weaker and weaker following the birth, and I stayed by her bedside. I would read to her from her favorite books, and at night I slept in a nearby room.

But she grew weaker and weaker, and during her final hours, she told me her final wish. Now understand that we had three living children– Patsy, Maria, and Lucy Elizabeth. She said that she could not tolerate her children being raised by a stepmother. And she begged me to never remarry. Of course I promised and soon on September 6, 1782, my beloved Martha died. 

My oldest daughter Patsy was nine years old when my wife died, and many years later she wrote that I almost lost my mind from the grief– That I would refuse to leave my room for a week at a time– And then when I did come out I would go on long horseback rides through the woods surrounding Monticello. She later wrote – the violence of his emotion, of his grief to this day I dare not trust myself to describe.

Transcript

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This podcast blends history and imagination. Real historical figures appear alongside fictional situations and imagined conversations. While based on historical research, portions of the program are dramatized for storytelling purposes.

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Mr. Jefferson, the last time we spoke, you had basically written the Declaration of Independence. The United States was fighting Britain in the Revolutionary War, and in October of 18, or excuse me, 1781, George Washington's troops defeated the British at Yorktown, Virginia. In other words, we had now won our war for independence. Yes, Mr. Bartley, and by early 1782, my family was back at my home of Monticello. My beloved Martha gave birth to her sixth child, Lucy Elizabeth. Unfortunately, Martha grew weaker and weaker following the birth, and I stayed by her bedside. I would read to her from her favorite books, and at night I slept in a nearby room. But she just grew weaker and weaker, and during her final hours she told me her final wish. Now understand that we had three living children, Patsy, Maria, and Lucy Elizabeth. She said that she could not tolerate her children being raised by a stepmother, and she begged me never to remarry. Of course I promised, and soon on September the 6th, 1782, my beloved Martha died. My oldest daughter, Papsy, Patsy was nine years old when my wife died, and many years later she wrote that I almost lost my mind from the grief, that I would refuse to leave my room for a week at a time. And then when I did come out, I would go on long horseback rides through the woods surrounding Monticello. She later wrote, the violence of his emotion, of his grief to this day, I dare not trust myself to describe. Well, Mr. Jefferson, what did you do next? Friends such as James Madison believed that I should return to politics. That would enable me to take my mind off my extreme grief. I agreed, and in June of 1783, I was elected to the Continental Congress, where I served on almost every major committee. Now then in the spring of 1784, I was sent to France. Benjamin Franklin had already charmed the French court, and I followed him there. Paris delighted me with the architecture, the music, and the books. Yet while I admired France, my thoughts often wandered back to Virginia. Well, Mr. Jefferson, did you enjoy being overseas? Indeed, though, oh I feared that revolutions have a tendency to begin with lofty principles and end with sharpened blades. And then there was George Washington back in the United States, Mr. Jefferson. Ah, yes, Mr. Bartley. General Washington. He summoned me home to become Secretary of State. I certainly accepted, though I confess that another member of the cabinet and I viewed the future of the Republic through very different spectacles. Mr Jefferson, could you mean Alexandra Hamilton? Alexander Hamilton? Yes, Mr. Bartley, the very man. Hamilton dreamed of banks, commerce, and a very powerful central government. I feared concentrated power. I preferred farmers, local government, and liberty close to the people. Well, Mr. Jefferson, it sounds like politics was was already to become uh was already becoming rough. Sir, politics has been rough since the beginning of time. Now, what I find it most interesting, what I found most interesting that that when the new nation sought its first president, there was remarkably little disagreement. George Washington was elected unanimously by the Electoral College, the only president in American history to receive every electoral vote, from what I understand. Well, Mr. Jefferson, after serving under President Washington, did you simply go on to become president yourself? Oh no, sir. The general had announced that he would not seek a third term. America had grown accustomed to seeing George Washington at the helm, and many wondered whether the young republic could survive without him. Well, Mr. Jefferson, I reckon that must have made folks nervous. Mr. Bartley, it certainly did. And with Washington retiring, the nation found itself divided between two visions. One group favored Vice President John Adams. Another looked to me. So Mr. Jefferson, uh did you and Mr. Adams run against each other? Uh we did, though not precisely in the manner of your modern elections. The Constitution then provided that the man receiving the second highest number of electoral votes would become vice president. Well, Mr. Jefferson, what what does that exactly does that mean? Well, Mr. Bartley, that means that that John Adams became president and I became vice president. Uh well, Mr. Jefferson, that kind of seems to me like uh making the losing baseball manager the assistant coach. Yes. An excellent comparison. The arrangement possessed more optimism than true wisdom. Well, Mr. Jefferson, were you and Adams enemies? Mr. Bartley, not originally. We had worked together on the Declaration of Independence. I certainly admired his devotion to liberty, and he kindly called me his friend. Yet politics has a way of turning disagreements into personal quarrels. Well, Mr. Jefferson, what kind of disagreements? Mr. Bartley, President Adams and the Federalists desired a stronger national government. I feared that too much power in Washington might threaten liberty itself. We also disagreed concerning relations with France and the limits of free speech. Mr. Jefferson, what do you mean free speech? Mr. Bartley, Congress passed laws known as the Alien and Sedition Acts. Many believed that they threatened the freedom of the press and punished criticism of the government. I regarded them as dangerous. Well, Mr. Jefferson, it sounds like tempers were running high. But somehow you became vice president. Ah, Mr. Bartley, under John Adams, uh well, yes, a strange arrangement to be sure. Remember, the Constitution originally allowed the runner-up to serve beside the victor. To use my baseball analogy again, uh imagine two rival baseball managers occupying the same dugout. I I'm guessing, Mr. Jefferson, that didn't work out too well. Mr. Bartley, let me say it most definitely did not. But Mr. Jefferson, in 1800 you became president. Yes, Mr. Bartley, the educ the election was bitter and nearly ended in disaster. Yet the transfer of power was peaceful. That perhaps was one of our young republic's greatest achievements. Well, what were you most proud of as president? Mr. Bartley, I would definitely say a purchase. Mr. Jefferson, what do you mean by a purchase? Mr. Bartley, it was a purchase or the purchase of Louisiana. Napoleon wished to sell and I wished to divide. The territory doubled the size of the United States. I confess that I wondered whether the Constitution gave me authority for such a transaction. But opportunities are sometimes shy creatures. Delay too long and they disappear. Well, Mr. Jefferson, could you elaborate on that? Certainly. Certainly, Mr. Bartley. In 1803, Napoleon Bonaparte, needing money for his wars in Europe and having lost interest in his North American ambitions, offered to sell not merely the city of New Orleans, but the entire Louisiana territory. The opportunity was astonishing. Well, Mr. Jefferson, how big was it? Nearly eight hundred thirty thousand square miles stretching from the Mississippi River westward toward the Rocky Mountains. For fifteen million dollars, the United States almost doubled in size. But Mr. Jefferson, didn't you believe in a strict interpretation of the Constitution? Where did it say a president could buy half a continent? Ah, sir, I must admit, that did trouble me greatly. I searched the Constitution and found no explicit authority. Yet the opportunities of such magnitude magnitude seldom knocked twice. I concluded that the treaty making power permitted the purchase, and I submitted the agreement to the Senate. And from what I understand, Mr. Jefferson, then came Lewis and Clark. Mr. Bartley, precisely. Once the territory was ours, I asked my secretary, Meriwether Lewis, and his friend, William Clark, to lead an expedition westward. They were to map the land, establish relations with native peoples, study plants and animals unknown to science, and if possible, discover a practical route to the Pacific Ocean. Lewis and Clark? What do you mean? Well, they were brave men. Their expedition brought knowledge of lands scarcely known to Americans. I hoped science and discovery might walk hand in hand with liberty. Yet from what I understand, not everything went well. Mr. Bartley, you are kind to phrase it so gently. Trade disputes with Britain and France led to an embargo. I hoped to avoid war. Instead, I caused hardship to many Americans. A president learns quickly that good intentions and good results are not always twins. Mr. Jefferson, people today definitely admire you, but they also ask difficult questions. Well, Mr. Bartley, they should. I spoke eloquently of liberty while owning enslaved human beings. History has every right to examine such contradictions. I would ask only that men judge honestly, neither excusing faults nor denying accomplishments. Well, Mr. Jefferson, there is another part of your life that people discuss today. A woman by the name of Sally Hemmings. She accompanied your family to France after your presidency, didn't she? Yes. This Miss Sally Hemmings came to Paris or went to Paris with my daughter Maria. Life in France was unlike, very unlike life in Virginia, and she remained with my household there before returning to America. Well, historians today, Mr. Jefferson, believe that you fathered several of her children. Mr. Bartley, I must say that such matters were rarely spoken of publicly in my own day. Yet history continues to uncover evidence and to ask questions that each generation must confront. And perhaps that is one reason, Mr. Jefferson, that people still find you fascinating. You were the author of the Declaration of Independence, who wrote that all men are created equal, but yet at the same time owned slaves and lived with contradictions that Americans still wrestle with. Mr. Bartley, I I I would not ask posterity to ignore my feelings. Rather, let it weigh the whole of a whole life, its aspirations, and its shortcomings, and judge accordingly. Permit me to say that Sally Hemmings was not only a slave, she was closely related to my late wife. You see, Martha Jefferson's parents were John and Martha Wales. Martha's father also had six children with one of his slave women. These children were considered black and were raised as slaves, and Sally was one of them. So you see, because they had the same father, Martha Wales and Sally Hemmings were half-sisters. And after John Wales' death in 1773, Sally became a slave to Martha and myself at Monticello. Uh, Mr. Jefferson, as I understand it, there is also a wax figure of Sally Hemings in this museum. And and I do hope uh that uh I have the opportunity of speaking with her in the future. Yes, I would like for you to know the full story. But getting back to your presidency, I think it's fair to say that after eight years you were ready to retire. Ah, Mr. Bartley, more than ready. Public life had exhausted me. I longed for Monticello, my books, my violin, and one dream that had occupied my thoughts for many, many years. Well, Mr. Jefferson, what dream was that? To build not merely a nation, but a place where future generations might learn and think freely. Uh do you mean uh like a college or a university? Uh, Mr. Bartley. Precisely. My friend, if you will return for the following episode, I will speak of the work that brought me perhaps more satisfaction than any office I ever held. Ever held. And that's where we're headed next. Yes, Mr. Bartley, to Charlottesville, sir, and to the education of the future.