This episode is the first part of an two episodes dealing with the book Rot, Riot, abnd Rebellion Mr. Jefferson’s Struggle to Save the UniversityThat Changed America. This books not only deals with the young Poe at the University of Virginia, but the rough initial days of UVA.
This episode is the first part of an two episodes dealing with the book Rot, Riot, abnd Rebellion Mr. Jefferson’s Struggle to Save the UniversityThat Changed America. This books not only deals with the young Poe at the University of Virginia, but the rough initial days of UVA.
00:00 Intro
Welcome to Celebrate Poe. My name is George Bartley, and this is episode 132 - Rot and Riot - Part One The music for the intro and outro for this podcast is from ‘Come Rest in This Bosom’ - said to be Edgar Allan Poe; favorite song.
For the past few months, it seems the episodes were about Shakespeare or my - as we say in the South - my recent medical unpleasantness - but now Celebrate Poe is back to its original subject - Edgar Allan Poe. Today I initially wanted to talk about Poe’s life immediately after leaving the University of Virginia and his sudden journey to Boston - but I ran into a great book by the name of ROT, RIOT, AND REBELLION: Mr. Jefferson’s Struggle to Save the UniversityThat Changed America by REX BOWMAN and CARLOS SANTOS. Rot, Riot, and Rebellion looks at the first days of the University of Virginia fron a slightly different perspective - certainly dealing with Poe, but concentrating more on some of the sordid aspects of the university’s initial days - aspects that certainly influenced the young Poe. So for this and the following episode, I’d like to draw heavily from Rpt. Riot, and Rebellion. Mr. Jefferson’s Struggle to Save the UniversityThat Changed America.
And to help me, I’d like to introduce the Ghost of Mr. Poe. I have been having some problems with the sound level of the ghost - but please give me a break. Think of it from this perspectives - Ghosts don’t always have the best sound quality. Most of the time all you get is a scream or a boo - but then again this is Edgar Allan Poe - and you would expect him to be articulate.
GHOST ENTER SOUND
Greetings Mr. Bartley.
Hello Mr. Poe
I know that I was hoping that you could talk about your return to Boston and your first published book today, but I think it is more important to cover a little bit more about your life at the University of Virginia from a slightly different perspective.
My understanding was that I would talk today about life after I left the University of Virginia - but I will respect your wishes. Anyone has the right to change his or her mind. And after all, it is YOUR podcast.
Thank you for your understanding, Mr. Poe. You see, I recently ran into a source by the name of ROT, RIOT, AND REBELLION: Mr. Jefferson’s Struggle to Save the University That Changed America by REX BOWMAN - a book that eloquently examines the initial years of the University from a slightly different perspective.
Ah, I could see that might be highly informative. Yes, Mr. Bartley - but before I further discuss my time at the University of Virginia, I believe it would be most germane to introduce the topic of the relationship between Miss Elmira Shelton and myself.
04:15 Poe and Miss Elmira Shelton
Yes, i agree - but you must admit that the exact details of so personal a relationship are often disputed.
That is often true of history - various writers might have different perspectives - evn different views of what they considered the facts regarding what actually occurred. So the reader, historian, or evaluator must recognize that reality and do their best.
But getting back to the subject of Miss. Elmyra Roster -
Yes, I must admit now - whether i was fully cognizant of the fact at the time is another matter - that I was on what you might call an extremely insecure foundation in the Allan household. I was probably was just beginning to realize it - although I did not know at the time to what extent.
You probably did not WANT to admit the actual extent of those feelings of insecurity.
Possibly. And now that you mention it, my serenity may have been disturbed by my feelings for my dear Miss Elmyra.
I thought you LOVED her - or am I wrong?
Oh, I DEFINITELY loved her. But a part of me was to later believe that her father felt I was not good enough for her - that I had no future - because John Allan did not consider me his rightful heir.
That must have been terrible for you.
Mr. Bartley - I believe these words written by Miss Elmyra best describe her feelings. May I read them?
Certainly. By all means go ahead.
Edgar was a beautiful boy — Not very talkative. When he did talk though he was pleasant but his general manner was sad — He was devoted to Mrs. Allan and she to him. Our acquaintance was kept up until he left to go to the University, and during the time he was at the University he wrote to me frequently, but my father intercepted the letters because we were too young — no other reason. He never addressed any poems to me. It distresses me to see anything written in a scurrulous manner in regard to him — don’t believe one tenth part of what they say. A great part caused by jealousy and envy. I have the greatest respect for his memory. He was very generous. On Churchill [Church Hill] a female (acquaintance?) called to see [me?] and made a coarse remark and Poe said I am surprized you should associate with anyone who would make such a remark. He had strong prejudices. Hated anything coarse and unrefined. Never spoke of his parents. He was kind to his sister as far as in his power. He was as warm and zealous in any cause he was interested in, very enthusiastic and impulsive, I was about 15 or 16 when he first addressed me and I engaged myself to him, and I was not aware that he wrote to me until I was married to Mr. Shelton when I was 17.
So she wrote letters to you, but the father intercepted them, and the father also intercepted the letters that you wrote her. So it would appear to both of you that the person who you loved had somehow lost interest.
That is a fair assestment - we both found out what actually occurred with our declarations of love, but then it was too late. Miss Elmyra Roster had marred the extremely wealthy Mr. Shelton.
i am sure her father was happy with that arrangement.
I believe that us a fair conclusion. But perhaps this calls for a bit of review.
Mr. Allan’s actions at thta time certainly communicated to those who knew him that John Allan had definitely improved his circumstances. One must understand that when the death of Allan’s uncle, William Galt, in March, 1825, made his nephew a rich man,. Mr. Allan took, or resumed, that prominent place in Richmond social life which his own and Mrs. Allan’s fondness for entertainment prompted. By 1825 the neighborhood of Fifth and Main Streets had become fully established as a fashionable quarter of town. The house, torn down in the nineties, had two lofty stories, with wide porches and high ceilings. When John Allan purchased the house, there were not many buildings in the neighborhood, and the lot was an ample one.
10:12 Introduction of star gazing and Eureka
My room, on the second floor, northeast corner, therefore gave me a most charming view of the river and the surrounding country. On the wide porch stood a telescope, brought from England by John Allan, from which I learned my first lessons in star-gazing.
Mr. Poe - our listeners might not be aware that one of your last works was an essay by the name of Eureka - your attempt to explain the universe.. do you feel that is an accurate description?
Mr. Bartley, I believe that even a cursory examintion of Eureka will require at least several episodes. In Eureka I wrote “Because Nothing was, therefore All Things are”. i also discuss man's relationship to God and the universe.
Sounds VERY ambitious to me.
At the beginning of Eureka, I state "I design to speak of the Physical, Metaphysical and Mathematical – of the Material and Spiritual Universe: of its Essence, its Origin, its Creation, its Present Condition and its Destiny. that space and duration are one” and that matter and spirit are made of the same essence. I believe that people have a natural tendency to believe in themselves as infinite with nothing greater than their soul—such thoughts stem from man's residual feelings from when each shared an original identity with God. Ultimately individual consciousnesses will collapse back into a similar single mass, a "final ingathering" where the "myriads of individual Intelligences become blended
I did not mean to start discussing Eureka in this episode - definitely not yet - I just wanted to point out that perhaps that telescope that you used on the second floor somehow kindled your interest in starts and the universe - an interest that would develop into Eureka. I think some of he ideas in Eureka are going to requre a bit more effort to unpack.
12:43 John Allan and money
But getting back to that period of my life, it was obvious - that unlike John Allan - I did not love money for its own sake. I had seen John Allan prosper, become bankrupt, and rise again to wealth. While there could hardly have been a temptation for me at any time to enter John Allan’s business house, my determination to pursue my own course as a creative artist may well have justified itself to him by his memory of the disturbed days between 1822 and 1825, when the Allan household must have been a good illustration of the transitory nature of the dollar.
You know, Mr. Poe, my persona belief is that John Allan would have preferred you engage in the study of law or some other orderly profession.
I quite agree. But i believe I knew - at least on some level - that I was destined to be a creative person. While I may not have fully understood it at the time, at the University of Virginia, I was entering a new environment whose very foundation was independence from guidance and restraint.
14:01 Introduction to Rot, Riot, and Rebellion
And that makes a great transition into the book ROT, RIOT, AND REBELLION Mr. Jefferson’s Struggle to Save the University That Changed America.
Now the book Rot, Riot, and Rebellion points out that you were “one of the youngest students to arrive at the University” during your time of attendance..
That would be during the University’s second year of operation.
I believe that would was 1826.
Yes, Mr. Bartley, and like most students I traveled over an extremely series of rough roads and ragged paths; it took twelve hours to ride the sixty miles from Richmond to Charlottesville by horseback.
Excuse me, I somehow was under the impression the journey did not take as long. My bad.
If my bad means your are admitting a mistake, then I accept your apology - I think.
Yes, my bad basically means that you are admitting a mistake.
ˆ
Thank you - but getting back to the journey from my home in Richmond to Charlottesville - I must point out that often rough-hewn tree trunks served as footbridges over what seemed like a never ending series of streams and rivers. The town of Charlottesville - for that is the site of the University - is located in the center of the rolling hills and mountains of Albemarle County
Mr. Poe - would you happen to know what he general population of Albermarle was during the time that you attended the univeristy.
Ah yes, during those days, Alberrmarle County had a population of approximately 9,000 whites and 11,500 black slaves,
In other words - what we might refer to as members of the enslaved population.
Yes - and one must remember that Albermarle County was a collection of small homes, busy hotels, taverns, a courthouse, and a stone jail. One might say that this was the bustling and noisy center of an otherwise sleepy frontier: blacksmiths hammered and wagons trundled through town while gristmills ground corn and wheat. Crowds gathered at the courthouse to watch courtroom dramas unfold. The scream of sawmills split the air, which was filled with smoke and the pungent smell of distilleries and tanneries.
Mr. Poe - that is a very picturesque description.
Yes, Albermarle County was what you might refer to as a most charming area.
And hopefully, the recently established University was a place where you could really stand out.
Au contraire, Mr. Bartley at Mr. Jefferson’s school, I quite rapidly became just one of the crowd—drinking and gambling and occasionally skirting the rules. And while I was not one to bloody my own knuckles, I witnessed many brawls during my months at the University of Virginia. Many of those brawls could only be described as quite gruesome. Mr. Jefferson’s intentions may have been to establish a pristine academic paradise, but the reality was a school of frequent rot and riotsl
Mr. Poe - it would seem to be that those brutal fights you saw up close miight have influenced some of the brutal fiction that you late wrote. I know you wrote letters home mentioning some of your observations regarding life at the University - some of those letters even included accounts of your - how shall I put it - your classmates in combat. Would you care to read from this letter you wrote to John Allan on September 21, 1826 when you were just seventeen.
Certainly..
Thank you.
Clears throat. Is that what you humans do?
Sometimes.
Then I will proceed.
“We have had a great many fights up here lately—The faculty expelled Wickliffe last night for general bad conduct, But more especially for biting one of the student’s arms with whom he was fighting—I saw the whole affair—it took place before my door—Wickliffe was much the stronger but not content with that—after getting the other completely in his power, he began to bite—I saw the arm afterwards—and it was really a serious matter. It was bitten from the shoulder to the elbow—and it is likely that pieces of flesh as large as my hand will be obliged to be cut out. “He is from Kentucky—the same one that was in suspension when you were up here some time ago—Give my love to Ma and Miss Nancy.”
Thank you Mr. Poe. I believe i mentioned in an earlier episode that at least one of your rooms at the University room was number 13, located on what was called the Western Range.
Yes, Mr. Bartley. Mr. Jefferson had laid out his campus in four orderly rows of dorms that ran on a north to south axis. Now one row of twenty-eight student rooms faced the grassy expanse called the Lawn from the west, and a nearly identical row of twenty-six faced the Lawn from the east. A covered walkway ran along the front of the Lawn rooms. And that walkway was supported “by rows of stately pillars. Parallel to the row of Lawn rooms were the Range rooms, which faced outward, away from the Lawn.
I am trying to visualize this.
My room at number 13 faced a field where today the school’s main libraries are located. Interspersed among the Lawn rooms were ten pavilions where the professors lived. Interspersed among the Range rooms were the six “hotels” where students ate their meals. At the north end of the Lawn stood the grand Rotunda.
I believe that Rotunda was modeled on Romes’s Pantheon..
You are correct in that observation, Mr. Bartley. the Rotunda at the University WAS modeled on Romes’s Pantheon.
And unless I am mistaken, the Pantheon in Rome was first a Roman temple, later a Catholic Church, and one of the few Classical Buildinsg that has been in almost continuous use.
The Rotunda at the University of Virginia provided space for the library and lecture halls. One might say that the Rotunda served as the heart and spiritual center of the university.
The story has been told that while Mr. Jefferson had obsessed over the appearance of his university and was quite familiar with its structure, he once opened a pavilion door to leave, only to find himself stepping into a closet.
And this incident was said to have occurred, despite Mr. Jefferson’s intimate familiarity with the layout of the university of Virginia.
But how would you personally describe the physical and sensory appearance of the University.
That would require a rather complex - and even somewhat contradictory explanation.
I think you re up to the task, Mr. Poe.
Initially, I feel it is important to point out that there was no escaping the grittiness of the early nineteenth century. The Lawn at the University was a rugged, two-hundred-foot-wide, stony slope of ragged grass and dirt where cows, pigs, sheep, chickens, and wild dogs roamed and defecated. The privies, located between the Range and Lawn rooms, stank a stench beyond description.
I would imagine that this obnoxious aroma would be even more intense during the heat of the Charlottesville summers.
Yes, Mr. Bartley - that is an understatement. And crowds of slave children hung about the complex. Dust rose from the nearby road that ran between the school and Charlottesville. The university had more than two hundred hearths: black chimney smoke blew across the university.
I would not be surprised to learn that you had a problem, with flies!
Oh yes, swarms of flies would swarm about the piles of garbage tossed out from the hotel kitchens. The pungent odor of the school’s stables was inescapable.
If I may be permitted to be somewhat indelicate - did students and professors realize the importance of cleanliness?
In what respect?
Mainly in respect to bathing.
Oh no, the vast majority of students, as well as professors bathed infrequently. They shared a small bathhouse outside the immediate area of the lawn located near a whipping post for slaves.
That is disgusting!
26:12 Future episodes
On that note, let’s end episode one dealing with Rot, Riot, and Rebellion.
Part Two examines such areas as Poe’s gambling debts, the death of Thomas Jefferson, and further rot, riot, and rebellion during the early days of University of Virginia.
Then after the second part of Rot, Riot, and Rebellion ,Celebrate Poe will begin a series of episode for the month of October with Haloween, its origins, development, and a look at some of Mr. Poe’s writings that are often viewed as having a connection to Haloween and its symbols.
27:00 Sources
Sources include “ROT, RIOT, AND REBELLION: Mr. Jefferson’s Struggle to Save the UniversityThat Changed America by REX BOWMAN and CARLOS SANTOS”, Poe and Place by Phillip Edward Phillips, and New Glimpses of Poe by James A. Harrison
27:18 Outro
Thank you for listening to Celebrate Poe - a deep dive into the life, times, and works of America’s Shakespeare - Edgar Allan Poe.
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